Indy Officinalis on Starting Seeds Indoors with Grow Lights

Jessica Mitchell: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Mother Earth News and Friends podcast. At Mother Earth News for 50 years and counting, we’ve been dedicated to conserving the planet’s natural resources, while helping you conserve your financial resources. In this podcast, we host conversations with experts in the fields of sustainability, homesteading, natural health, and more to share all about how you can live well wherever you are in a way that values both people and our Mother Earth. So, settle in, and enjoy today’s episode.

Hello and welcome to another exciting episode of the “Mother Earth News and Friends” podcast. I’m Jessica Mitchell, and joining me today is Indy Officinalis. We’re going to be learning more about Indy, her new show “Farm Dreams,” and we’re going to get some seed-starting tips. So, welcome to the podcast Indy!

Indy Officinalis: Thank you. Thank you so much. I’m so excited to be here. Huge fan of Mother Earth News.

Introducing Indy Officinalis

Jessica Mitchell: We’re really excited to have you, [00:01:00] too. So I’d love to jump into our episode today, first just learning a little bit about you. So can you tell us a little more about who you are and what you do?

Indy Officinalis: Yeah. Yeah. So I would say, you know, first and foremost, I’m a food grower and educator. I grow food mostly for underserved communities and I spend a lot of time teaching other people tips about sustainability, how to grow their own food. I also teach folks how to forage as well. So those are, those are kind of my main hobbies turned career.

Jessica Mitchell: That’s amazing. And it’s so cool that you were able to find that way to turn that into your day to day job as well.

Indy Officinalis: Yeah, yeah. And then, of course, I always forget now, I’m the host of “Farm Dreams” on, on Nat Geo. I, you know, new title.

Jessica Mitchell: Yeah, you know, and then there’s that. So, in your line of work with farming, working with nature, foraging community engagement and [00:02:00] activism, all of that stuff, what are you seeing in those areas that you think will pave the way for a sustainable, climate resilient future. That’s something we love focusing on in Mother Earth News, seeing what that future can look like. So I’d love to hear your perspective on that.

Indy Officinalis: Yeah, I’m really inspired by what I’ve seen since 2020 in regards to just how the human spirit seems to be renewed. I know that collectively as a world we’ve gone through some really hard times together, and, you know, hard times create strong people, and I’ve always kind of hated that phrase. But I do see us moving towards more resiliency and more sustainability, really just through human nature, because unfortunately, right now, it’s not that the planet itself is able to just, you know, heal itself. It isn’t able to heal its soil on its own or the ocean. So it’s really up to us as humans. And in the past, I think [00:03:00] that collectively as humans, we haven’t focused on that as much, but I think food insecurity and food scarcity has really risen to the forefront of all of our minds. So I think that humans, for the first time since I’ve been on this planet, really seem like they’re moving in a positive direction towards helping to heal the planet.

About “Farm Dreams”

Jessica Mitchell: That is a really encouraging thought, and that’s awesome that you’re seeing that in your line of work.

Now to talk about that show, “Farm Dreams,” I really enjoyed going through some of those episodes. It was just so fun to, to watch that and see how you’re going around and, and helping people find solutions to their farms. So do you want to tell us a little bit about that show, what it’s about where people can watch it, and what are you most excited for viewers to watch and learn from the show?

Indy Officinalis: So “Farm Dreams” is, is almost set up in a farm makeover style. There are [00:04:00] six episodes and I kind of, you know, consider the episodes to be like there’s a farm for everyone. So in each episode we tackle a different, a different style of farming. So in one we’re visiting vertical hydroponic farms and solving some of the issues that come along with that style of growing. Another episode we look at aquaculture and aqua farming and spend a lot of time looking at seaweed and kelp farming. And then there’s small backyard farming and rooftop farming. So I always encourage folks, you know, to, to check out the show, even if you’re like, hey, I don’t know how to drive a tractor and I, you know, know nothing about traditional agriculture. There are a lot of episodes that really focus on just different styles of farming that are more accessible to different folks.

And it’s fun. It’s a feel good show. I feel like we’re coming out of this, and I’m guilty of this too, coming out of this era where we’re watching like serial killer documentaries and exposés and all that fun, you know, kind of [00:05:00] dark media we’ve all been consuming. But I feel like this is, this is such a departure from that. It’s very educational. And I hope people find it to be very joyous and uplifting and empowering. You can watch it on, it’s on Disney+, on Hulu, and then it streams like on regular linear cable television on Nat Geo Wild.

Jessica Mitchell: I love what you said about how there’s a kind of a different types of farming for each episode. And it was really cool. Like, I mean, I’m nowhere near the ocean, but I loved when you went, I think it was Alaska, right? Up where they were farming, like seaweed and stuff. And that was really cool. But then there was also some really accessible things, like there is a group of friends who are in this neighborhood and trying to create this community garden. And it was a very small plot. And that was something that was like, oh, that’s so applicable to where I live, too.

Indy Officinalis: And, and I feel like for folks who even aren’t near the ocean and they’re like, oh, well, I can’t grow seaweed. [00:06:00] You know, I talked a little bit in that episode about using seaweed in your traditional farming, because it’s really great for the soil, it can be really expensive. So finding someone who grows seaweed and using that in your garden, in your backyard, on your farm, is another way to help be a part of that style of farming.

Joys of Seed Starting

Jessica Mitchell: Absolutely. All right. Well, for those listeners, definitely catch “Farm Dreams.” It’s such a fun show and so uplifting, just like what Indy said.

So to get into some of the meat of our episode, we’re going to be talking about seed starting. But I remember in one of, I want to say one of the first episodes of “Farm Dreams,” you were helping show a couple how to seed start in their home. And I remember you talking a little bit about how much you really enjoyed it. And before we get into the definition of seed starting and everything, what do you really love most about that whole process of starting seeds?

Indy Officinalis: I think seed starting is for, you know, people who love puppies and babies. It’s like getting to [00:07:00] be there at the beginning. It’s, you know, a moment filled with hope. A lot of folks, you know, who live in places that have the four seasons, it’s something you can sit down and do inside where it’s warm, have a cup of tea, have a glass of wine, whatever. It’s, it’s an activity for the whole family.

So I, I love it because in a lot, with a lot of the populations that have worked with folks who are differently abled people who don’t get to spend as much time outside who have trouble bending over and and working in soil that’s established on like an established farm. They can start seeds. Kids can start seeds so it’s really accessible. One of those fun activities that makes you feel good.

Starting Seeds Indoors with Grow Lights vs. Direct Sowing

Jessica Mitchell: It is really exciting when you start to see those seeds come out of the soil, too. It’s, it’s a really magical moment, I think.

How would you give a general definition of seed starting for those who might be really new to that process? And when would someone start seeds?

Indy Officinalis: I was, I was thinking about that. Like, what is the [00:08:00] definition of seed starting? So, you know, I would describe seed starting as just setting up your plant, your seed, for its best possible future. So you’re helping to encourage germination in a nice controlled environment.

If you’re just starting out with seed starting, it’s important to differentiate which seeds should be started indoors, should be started in pots versus ones that you should direct sow into your garden. And my rule of thumb has always been root vegetables you should definitely start those outdoors, because you want the root to be able to hang out where it’s going to be for the entirety of its life. So like carrots, beets, turnips, radishes, just you can just broadcast those seeds. You’ll notice that those seeds are super tiny. You should just fling them out into your garden and let them land where they may and then later thin out the ones that you don’t want.

So root vegetables, [00:09:00] annual flowers, flowers that are going to, you know, bloom once a year. I start those outdoors too. I think transplanting flowers from inside to outside you know, hasn’t worked well for me in the past. I also, certain things that vine, I like to start outdoor so that they can grow Right next to whatever trellis I’m going to put them on. So I do tend to start beans outdoors. But I know that people do start them indoors. So that’s one of those things that maybe it’s just kind of a preference for different people.

And then seeds that you would start indoors. For me, those are things that are like tomatoes, peppers, things where I’m going to pluck and eat the fruiting body and things that are a little bit more delicate. Yeah, tomatoes, peppers strawberries I also like to start indoors in flats. You know, it’s also like what, what is going to be the use of your plants? If you’re growing [00:10:00] food to give them away, then I would start them indoors. So like for me personally, when I’m growing outside, I start my onions outside because it works well where I live in California. But if I’m growing food for a community and I’m planning on giving it away, giving it to friends, I have a lot of seeds, then I’ll start little onions inside.

It also, it’s, it’s so dependent on where you live in the country, right? So here in California, I can start a lot more things outside because we don’t have the danger of frost. But the big benefit of starting seeds indoors is that you’re protecting them from the frost. You’re starting things earlier, extending your growing season because you already have stuff growing inside. It’s nice, it’s warm, it’s happy, it’s healthy. And then later, once you’re, you know, past that frost date, you can transfer it outside.

Jessica Mitchell: And I love that point that you noted to about how where you live in the country is also going to be a huge contributing factor to what you’re going to start when and where.

Indy Officinalis: [00:11:00] Totally. I know. I know. I wish there was a universal advice for, for when to start things and where to start things.

So when it comes to germination, I’m always paying attention to, I use the acronym TWO, T-W-O . But temperature, water, and oxygen. Those are the most important parts of seed starting. And I think that there’s this pretty big misconception that you need soil to start seeds when in reality, you know, starting seeds in soil is something that you can do. But for me, the big benefit of starting seeds in soil is just keeping the seed itself dark. So that’s where, that’s where the oxygen comes in. It’s just like seeds do the best when they’re covered and dark and not in direct sun.

So, so my personal favorite seed starting mix I make myself, I use perlite, vermiculite, I throw in compost for once the, once [00:12:00] the seed is a little bit bigger and it’s grown some of its true leaves and it starts to need that nitrogen. Then the, then the compost starts to take over the work. But you know, starting seeds in like a heavy thick soil is going to really make it harder for those like little baby roots that you’re trying to establish, is going to make it harder for them to move through the soil. So I like to use like a light, airy, kind of seed starting soilless medium.

Seed Starting on a Budget

Jessica Mitchell: Now, one question for people who are just starting out with seed starting, is seed starting a venture that could be expensive or one where you need a lot of space? For gardeners who maybe have a small square footage to work with and maybe not such a big budget, what advice or maybe even just some comfort you would give them to show them that this can be an accessible thing for everybody?

Indy Officinalis: It really does not have to be expensive. Even the idea of like a soil less medium sounds expensive, but you can buy just like a seed starting cheapo mix probably at like [00:13:00] your local dollar store. If you have access to like somewhat healthy soil in your backyard, and you buy like a bag of perlite or vermiculite and mix that in just to add a little bit more aeration, like I was mentioning for, for those delicate you know, new baby roots. You can do it that way. It can be as simple as I think a lot of us did this in elementary school, you can just take a wet paper towel, put the seeds in there, and throw it into a plastic ziploc bag to keep in some of that moisture. Really doesn’t have to be expensive. I think it’s important to remember that, you know, in order to germinate, the seed doesn’t need anything. It has everything that it needs to to begin that germination process. So it’s really just about giving it that, you know, warm temperature. Making sure that it’s hydrated, making sure it has water, and making sure it has oxygen.

When to Put Light on Germinated Seeds

Jessica Mitchell: Now you did touch on this already with those essential elements you need to successfully start seeds. Maybe do you want to also add in some [00:14:00] tips for, for those things that seeds need if those elements aren’t quite there yet in the space naturally? Some maybe pieces of inexpensive equipment or tools that gardeners can have on hand.

Indy Officinalis: So you can start seeds in like little plastic trays, little plastic pots. If, if your house stays cool, you know, I’ve lived in places where, you know, we’re warming up the entire house by a wood stove. I would purchase a heat mat and you can just put that right under your little seedling trays. I would say that that’s the only like, you know, major equipment that I would, I would recommend for folks.

Once, once seedlings do develop those, those true leaves, so like not the little cotyledon leaves, but the second set of leaves that look more like the leaves that they’re going to look like. So it’s like with a tomato seed, you’re going to see those two cotyledon leaves and leaves that look like just round, random leaves. And then you’re going to get those tomato looking leaves. Once it has those, those are the leaves that are, [00:15:00] you know, able to use photosynthesis. So, that’s when you might want to incorporate a grow light once, once the plant needs sun if, if it’s still too, too cold out to transfer your tomato plants. If you’re starting them that early. I would start them a little later in the year.

A grow light could be helpful, but a windowsill usually works really well. And, you know, I always tell people, like, don’t overdo it with the light. Especially at the beginning of seed starting. Because what I’ve seen happen with a lot of folks is that like light to the to the young seedling can cause it to expel carbonic acid, which is going to make the, make the young seedling not able to absorb as much oxygen. And so then you’re going to get this hard seed that never really germinates. I encourage people to just not overdo it with the light and help, help that little seedling get as [00:16:00] much, as much oxygen as it can. So keep it in the dark, if possible.

When to Transfer Seed Starts Outdoors

Jessica Mitchell: Now we talked about transferring the seeds outdoors, definitely after the first frost date has passed. Can you maybe talk a little bit about some resources that gardeners can find to help them maybe determine that frost date or any other indicators with either the seeds or the environment that will tell them, like, hey, this is a great time to start transferring them outside?

Indy Officinalis: Yeah, yeah. I mean, you can learn so much from your seed packet. Most seed packets on the back tell you when to put the seedling outside. And then also you can just look online and you know, look up what agricultural growing Zone you’re in. I think that’s really important for helping to determine your first and last frost dates. You can pick up a farmer’s almanac and, and use that as well. So you know, getting to know what, what growing Zone you’re in, I think is really important.[00:17:00]

Jessica Mitchell: And we can put some links down in the show notes of this episodes for listeners. So we could link to even just the Hardiness Zone, so you know what Zone you’re living in. And then also some of those resources that Indy mentioned to help you understand when that last frost date is going to be and when to start transferring your plants.

Common Challenges When Seed Starting Indoors

What are a couple common challenges maybe that someone may run into when starting seeds, maybe either indoors or during that transfer process? Are there any really big ones that come up? I know you mentioned that one with the seed, but are there any other ones that come to mind?

Indy Officinalis: Let’s see. You know, commonly, pets, household pets, cats, particularly, cats love knocking things off of counters. I’ve talked to so many people that they’re like, I’ve tried to grow this over and ,over my cat knocks it over. So starting seeds, you know, up high in your house, I think has a lot of benefits. It’s also naturally warmer up high. So if you have any sort of loft area, tall shelves, you know, I recommend that.[00:18:00]

With a lot of the folks who were unhoused that I worked with in growing food, we would use those little plastic like to go containers that you get from like food, like hot food bars or whatever. Because it’s, it’s like you’re making a mini greenhouse for your seedlings. So having something that covers your seedlings as they’re trying to go grow, keeps some of that humidity in, keeps the temperature up if you don’t have access to a seed mat.

Yeah, so I do see a lot of issues with people, people using too heavy of a soil and the roots aren’t able to establish as well as they would with a more lighter mix, like we talked about.

But you know, I don’t want people to overthink it because it’s really a simple thing. Like, you know, when I work with kids, we do this all the time. We just throw a seed and a wet paper towel, put it in a bag and it’s good to go.

So, different plants, there’s, there’s some, some plants that are just straight up hard to, to get to germinate. I think sweet alyssum is one of them. There’s just some plants that it’s like, no matter [00:19:00] what you do, it’s difficult. Don’t be afraid of failure. Just keep trying.

Troubleshooting Issues when Starting Seeds Indoors with Grow Lights

Jessica Mitchell: Absolutely. Well, we have this question from a reader. And they have a very specific scenario with them trying to start some seeds.

So they said, ” I’ve started some green cotton seeds several times inside on a heat pad with grow lights. They pop up happily and then stall around four weeks. I can’t put them outside until late April or May, but I want them to have a good start since growing season here is not all that long for them.” Is that a situation that you might have a couple thoughts about? Or maybe even just generally speaking, if there’s a plant inside that’s stalling, but it’s not, you can’t quite put them outside yet.

Indy Officinalis: Yeah, that’s a difficult one. Cotton, cotton can be interesting because it really does like to be warm. And so, you know, when you’re when you’re not able to to transfer it out and you’re getting kind of what it sounds like is just [00:20:00] like, you know, some later failure to thrive.

I would ask the person when they’re putting the grow lights on, on the on the seedlings. Because you know how we talked about the carbonic acid and oxygen and, you know, trying to keep them in the dark for as long as possible. I think that that’s really important.

I don’t have a lot of experience with growing cotton, but I do know from from my small attempts that that they do love a nitrogen rich soil. So I would say adding compost in. They need nitrogen for the entirety of their growth cycle. Which is, which isn’t that common. Usually I cycle through the different amendments that I’m adding to plants like tomatoes and peppers, but with cotton, you’re going to want to give them nitrogen rich amendments for the entirety of their growth. So that could be an issue. Maybe just adding in more compost to that starting mix.

It sounds like they’re doing a lot right, keeping them on [00:21:00] a heat mat, because yeah, temperature with, with those warm loving plants, you know, trying to keep the soil temperature around like 60 degrees Fahrenheit is what I would strive for. I would say trial and error. Maybe, maybe start with a new batch of seeds, it could be something about those seeds have gotten hard. And so they’re, they’re struggling a little bit. It’s one of those things like that’s what I loved so much about, about doing the show “Farm Dreams”. It’s just like going to someone’s house and seeing exactly what they’re doing from start to finish and pinpointing things that way.

So, yeah, I guess that would be my major advice. Start with adding in more nitrogen.

Indy at the MOTHER EARTH NEWS Fair

Jessica Mitchell: As we are wrapping up our seed starting conversation, I was curious, do you have any favorite seeds that you really enjoy starting each season?

Indy Officinalis: You know, I can be the kind of lazy gardener that does love starting seeds outdoors and just like throwing down a bunch of carrots. That’s so fun for me. But as far as starting things [00:22:00] inside, I love starting peppers. I’m like a hot sauce girl to the core. I love spicy food. Anything, anything that’s purple, like purple peppers, purple tomatoes, you know, those are some of my favorite things to start indoors.

And then I don’t know why I feel like I need to mention this, but randomly, I was just thinking, like we had talked earlier about, you know, seeds that you should start outside. Corn is a huge one. I’ve seen people starting corn inside and, and it just does so much better if you, if you direct sow it. So I don’t know. I’m sure most folks know that, but just, just a reminder.

Jessica Mitchell: I love those purple peppers. I didn’t even know purple peppers existed until a few years ago. I never saw them before at my grocery store.

Indy Officinalis: One of my favorites is the Buena Mulata. Um, I love starting, you know, rare and heirloom seeds that have been carried through generations.

Jessica Mitchell: Yeah. It’s wonderful. Well, we are super excited because you’re going to be joining us at the Wisconsin Fair very soon. It’s coming up real [00:23:00] quick.

Indy Officinalis: No, I know. I need to get a plane ticket.

Jessica Mitchell: I know, everybody’s getting their transportation organized. So I’d love to ask, what are you most excited about to share with folks at the fair? And what are you excited to experience yourself?

Indy Officinalis: Yeah, I’m, I’m just so excited to to meet all the other folks that are going to be there. There’s just so many other people that I can learn from and that’s what I love doing. I feel like that’s what “Farm Dreams” is all about, is just like talking to other farmers and figuring out how we can network and how we can help each other and learn from one another.

You know, I’m excited to share more information with everyone about “Farm Dreams” and about what that process was and, and, you know, I always want to, kind of hone in that how authentic the experience of the show is for me. Because I know that there’s this idea that TV is just like scripted and not real. But, but we worked really hard as a team to, to make sure that we were having these authentic [00:24:00] experiences and like really getting into the heart of America and the heart of American farming. So just sharing some of those trial and errors and some of the funny things that happened along the way, where it’s just like, you’re dealing with a production crew and you’re like, no, that’s not how plants work. We can’t just do that. So there was, there were a lot of funny moments like that. But yeah, I’m, I’m so looking forward to it.

Jessica Mitchell: It’s going to be a great weekend. For listeners, if you want to come to the Wisconsin Fair, we’ll provide a link in the show notes or just go to MotherEarthNewsFair. com. You’ll see the Wisconsin Fair right there and you can sign up and register for your tickets. Indy’s going to be there along with a bunch of other great guests. So it’s just going to be such a great weekend.

Indy Officinalis: I’m so looking forward to it. Thank you so much for your time.

Jessica Mitchell: Of course. Now, is there anything you want to plug at the end here for where people can follow you and what you’re doing?

Indy Officinalis: Yeah, sure. Right now I’m mostly share things on Instagram. So my Instagram handle is @IndyOfficinalis. And[00:25:00] you know, of course, watching, watching “Farm Dreams” is, you know, super helpful. We’re always hoping for a season two so that we can help more farmers. And then yeah, catch me in person. I’m at community gardens. If you’re local to the Los Angeles area, and you, you want help on your farm or garden, I’m always, you know, available to help.

Jessica Mitchell: Wonderful. Well, we’ll include those links as well, so people can follow what you’re doing, but thank you so much, Indy, for this great podcast episode. It was so awesome to talk with you and learn from you, and I know this is just going to be such a great resource for our listeners.

Indy Officinalis: Yay, thank you so much.

Podcast Credits and “Chasing Farm Primitives and Creating Friends” Podcast

Jessica Mitchell: Thanks for joining us for this episode of “Mother Earth News and Friends.” To listen to more podcasts, to learn more, and to get connected on our social media, visit our website, www.MotherEarthNews.com/Podcast. You can also email us at Podcast@OgdenPubs.com with any comments, questions, or suggestions.

Our podcast production team includes Kenny Coogan, Jessica Mitchell, John Moore, and Alyssa Warner.

Music [00:26:00] for this episode is “Travel Light” by Jason Shaw.

The “Mother Earth News and Friends” podcast is a production of Ogden Publications.

At Mother Earth News, we love making friends all over the country and around the world through our magazines, Fairs, podcasts, and more. During this past Labor Day weekend, our Farm Collector and Gas Engine magazines had the pleasure of sharing a tent with the Cast Iron Seat Collectors Association at the Midwest Old Threshers Reunion. So, we wanted to take a moment to mention our friends at the Association as they celerate their 50th anniversary. Check out their podcast called “Chasing Farm Primitives and Creating Friends” by Thomas Wilson and the Cast Iron Seat Collectors Association. Tom and friends discuss chasing and collecting cast iron farm primitves while creating lifelong friendships. Find their podcast on Spotify.

Until next time, don’t forget to love your Mother.

Meet Indy Officinalis

Indy Officinalis is a forager, educator, urban farmer, and steward of both her environment and her community. She’s currently transforming a small plot of land in Los Angeles to create a mutual-aid model demonstration farm. Her work is centered around the amplification of Black and Brown communities and food-insecure regions. Indy is also the host of National Geographic WILD’s “Farm Dreams.” In this six-part series, farming expert and influencer Indy Officinalis encounters aspiring farmers hoping to make their dreams a reality.

Additional Resources from Indy Officinalis

• Follow Indy Officinalis on Instagram
• Learn more about “Farm Dreams”
• Farmers’ Almanac
• USDA Plant Hardiness Zone Map

 Our Podcast Team

Jessica Mitchell, John Moore, Kenny Coogan, and Alyssa Warner
Music: “Travel Light” by Jason Shaw

Listen to more podcasts at MOTHER EARTH NEWS PODCAST.

Check out the MOTHER EARTH NEWS Bookstore for more resources that may interest you.

Go to the MOTHER EARTH NEWS Fair page for an opportunity to see some of our podcast guests live.

The Mother Earth News and Friends podcasts are a production of Ogden Publications.

Ogden Publications strives to inspire “can-do communities,” which may have different locations, backgrounds, beliefs, and ideals. The viewpoints and lifestyles expressed within Ogden Publications articles are not necessarily shared by the editorial staff or policies but represent the authors’ unique experiences.